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Thread: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

  1. #1
    Love comes and goes but FreeOnes is forever. Luxman's Avatar
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    Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Education is the key to a prosperous future for every country, so it should cost as little as possible, if not free.
    Corporate welfare should be eliminated and the money used to educate EVERYONE!!!
    Greed is the cause of all our problems.

    http://www.vice.com/read/talking-to-...dent-loans-111
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    i was hoping to find away to get out of repaying my loans.

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    Love comes and goes but FreeOnes is forever. Luxman's Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I could get my student loans forgiven if I were of the mind, and I might at some point, but I really don't mind cutting a check every month for the education that's done more for me than merely given me a few sheepskins to hang on the wall.

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    Love comes and goes but FreeOnes is forever. Luxman's Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Education and healthcare should be free, at least for everyone under 25.

    http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201...rways-are-rich
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Luxman View Post
    Education and healthcare should be free, at least for everyone under 25.

    http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201...rways-are-rich
    And anyone under 25 should get free schooling/tuition/meals/housing/entertainment and shouldn't have to work. Let someone else pay for it.

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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Quote Originally Posted by RJS13 View Post
    And anyone under 25 should get free schooling/tuition/meals/housing/entertainment and shouldn't have to work. Let someone else pay for it.

    I meant tuition only, which is the main cause of student debt.
    An educated population would increase everyone's standard of living.
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    My student loan was paid off in full - the company I joined paid it off, no strings attached at all. They just paid it (I was head hunted at the time)

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    Racing is life... anything else is just waiting. Rey C.'s Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I agree that an educated populous is closely correlated to a higher standard of living. But in addition to 4 year degrees, STEM based associate degrees, trade, vocational and apprentice programs also lead to higher standards of living compared to those who just have a general studies high school diploma. For instance, a certified welder, electrician or plumber is going to earn more than a person with a 4 year liberal arts degree in say Women's Studies, or any number of other fluffy social science programs. So IMO, the definition of "educated" needs to be looked at through less elitist eyes by our society. Sometimes we value the wrong things and have a tendency to look down on the "working man".

    Our schools are focused on filling colleges, not jobs. Here are some ideas to fix that.

    Who Needs College? The Swiss Opt for Vocational School


    Is greed a problem in the U.S. and globally? I think that it is. But that's been the case for a few thousand years and is a function of human nature. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's the biggest problem or the root cause of all of our problems. But I'm sure that it's up there. The combination of greed/dishonesty + willful ignorance (otherwise known as stupidity) + laziness probably is the most major contributor to our nation's social problems.


    Speaking of greed + stupidity...

    A New York Federal Reserve study last year found that a dollar increase in subsidized student loans leads colleges to raise tuition by 58 cents.

    Guaranteeing six figure student loans for young people, who haven't taken even one day of basic financial planning education, is stupid on the part of the government and fuels the greed of colleges. How many kids graduate from high school (or even college) and don't know how to balance a checkbook??? And colleges take advantage of this ignorance. As the above Federal Reserve study shows, a 1 dollar increase in subsidized student loans leads colleges to raise tuition by 58 cents. "The rise in college tuition over the past several decades has far outpaced the rate of inflation, rising an inflation-adjusted 139% at private nonprofit colleges since 1985, and 222% at their public counterparts." Major universities are (I would say) on par with the Defense Dept. when it comes to waste and financial abuse.

    Young people in many states and communities are offered free tuition and books and that allows them the opportunity to complete an associates degree. Where I live, that's been the case for about ten years. They could use this (already) free educational boost to get an associates or certification, and either go straight to work or transfer to a 4 year school, with their core studies already taken care of. What shocks me in my area is the number of kids who make no attempt to take advantage of any part of this fantastic opportunity. The smart ones do. The not so smart ones don't - and they often begin their long walk on the path to being a social parasite, always looking for a handout, always with a hard luck story.


    If we had some sort of national policy, whereby students would be educated in problem solving, critical thinking and logic (and not touchy-feely foolishness and the "teaching to the test" phenomenon that we have now) and be encouraged to think seriously about what meaningful careers they might have a passion for and would be suited for, we would be knocking the cover off the ball.
    "Don't tell me what I can't do!" -- John Locke

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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I just read this little entitled piece of shit's sad story.

    Brian, 29
    $40,000 in debt

    I took out loans when I went to school in California. I received enough scholarship money at the time to cover half of the tuition and the loans covered the remainder. I did not have a plan for paying them off, nor did I consider how I would make it work once I graduated. I needed to go to school and it was the only solution at the time.

    When I decided to move abroad, I think in the back of my head I thought that it would save me from having to pay them off. I saw the interest rise and my deferral period lapse and the anxiety just kept rising. I'm sure that Germany and America have some sort of reciprocity when it comes to this kind of stuff, just like they do with taxes, but I try not to think about it.

    The loans are about to default, and I'm worried about the consequences. I've blocked the loan company's emails from my inbox. I'm sure they will go after my parents soon, but that won't do much because they don't have any money either.

    I think at this point I owe about $40,000. I really, truly, honestly don't want to pay it back. Sure, I realize the responsibility I took on when I signed the papers and agreed to take out the loans, but I should have never had to do it in the first place. I feel some sort of civic duty not to pay them back, as if my small protest will make any kind of difference.

    I think I know two friends that have completely paid off their loans and have received an awesome amount of confidence because of it. I am very proud of them, but I don't think I'm one of those people. I would rather spend my money on things that I need like food and shelter than to give it back for a service that should have been provided for me.
    So he acknowledges that he signed a legally binding document. He acknowledges that he benefited from the money that was loaned to him. But in his little, entitled millennial brain, he shouldn't have to pay anything back. So he made a conscious decision not to pay the money back and hide out in Germany, instead of being an adult who pays his debts. And let's be honest, $40,000 isn't that much money for anyone who has a college degree and a decent job. From a $60K salary, even after taxes, he could afford to pay $10K a year. So in less than five years, his student loans could be paid off.

    This person is a criminal in the making, IMO. It's only a matter of time before he's caught embezzling money from his employer. And his reasoning will go something like this: "I worked so hard. I missed happy hour on multiple occasions and had to work at least two weekends over the past year. And to top it all, I didn't get a full bonus or a raise just because I was late for work a few dozen times and seldom got my assignments finished on time. The company makes billions. I only took $100,000 and I deserved it anyway... so really it was my money."

    Sure, you can educate people of low moral character who have no ethics. But then all you have is an educated crook. And that's exactly what these debt dodgers are, who've run off to Europe to hide like rats. The entitlement mentality of the millennial (or any) generation is quite simply another form of greed. If we won't give them what they want, they will steal it.
    "Don't tell me what I can't do!" -- John Locke

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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    The U.S. taxpayers footing the bill in a free college for everyone scheme would do nothing but allow colleges and universities to have a completely blank check. Some controls would have to be put in place before that's even discussed. Shifting already exorbitant college costs onto the taxpayers would be both ineffective and unfair.

    As has been well documented and proven, right now, colleges and universities (public even worse than private) have increased tuition at a rate MUCH greater than inflation, and it's tracked the increases the government has made in guaranteeing student loans. The more money colleges have access to, the more they'll charge students. They're going to get their money, so they don't care. They'd just build more unneeded buildings, hire more staff and deadbeat professors who don't do anything and give tenure (job for life) to professors who've learned to successfully play the political game on campus. And then you have students who are allowed to sign their names to loan documents that they don't even understand, and (sometimes) when they do, they don't care because they don't plan on paying it back anyway. It's like a mirror image of the housing crisis a few years ago, when people could get mortgages without even having a job.

    Increase the availability of post-secondary education (including vocational, technical and apprentice programs)? Yes, absolutely. Whatever I've made of my life, it's only because my parents drove me to get a good education. But don't do it in a way that we just have more educated idiots, who have nothing in the way of actual life skills. And don't do it in a way that there are no cost controls (with STRICT) accountability for the receiving institutions.

    Simply throwing money at problems is never the right solution. But there is a solution. It's not easy or quick. But if people will see that you don't have to go to a school that you can't afford, and can instead find more viable solutions, you can still get a perfectly good education and not be broke or severely in debt when you graduate.
    "Don't tell me what I can't do!" -- John Locke

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    Love comes and goes but FreeOnes is forever. Luxman's Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I don't know what the answer is, I was just pointing out a growing problem that can only get worse if it is not solved.
    Maybe the internet will somehow offer a viable alternative solution to expensive education.
    I agree that students should be encouraged financially to choose practical STEM and vocational careers.

    I still believe that greed is the root/major cause of most serious problems in the world.
    Take any negative event that's happened in history and greed is always part of the cause.
    It's a generalized statement, and every event is different, but there is always greed at some point.
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Luxman View Post
    I meant tuition only, which is the main cause of student debt.
    An educated population would increase everyone's standard of living.
    Right, but how is taking modern dance, liberal arts and introduction to finger painting increasing my standard of living? I'm not totally against SOME debt forgiveness, tuition reimbursement, and affordable tuition but your going to have to meet criteria. First on the list would be a taking courses like science, medicine, engineering, etc.- and maintain a C average or better. Don't take basket weaving and expect Johnny Taxpayer to foot the bill.
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Jordan Peterson gives his informed views on student loans, starts at 8:35.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q09cTqCABm4
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I feel like it is a huge detriment to most people. At the back of your mind, you have to question it at EVERY given step. Even while I'm getting my prereq's outta the way, I'm seeing thousands printed out for... nothing(?). For each semester, thousands are just piling up over courses I could really care less about.
    And then, there really is no guarantee that the money will be made back. The prospect of investing the next 5-20 years into something is daunting. Yes, we all signed up for an education. But it is a very human thing to not have faith (in the future being safe, prosperous and free of maladies/unfortunate events/other needs for that time and money)

    So.. while I know the burden will fall upon the shoulders of all the incoming college students, I personally believe in the draft dodging. The most American thing I could do is 'Take the money and run'. Fuck the next guy, fuck the system.
    That might be a little too American for most tastes, but that is my answer and I'm sticking to it.

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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Luxman View Post
    I don't know what the answer is, I was just pointing out a growing problem that can only get worse if it is not solved.
    That's cool and I share your concerns. BTW, not all of my comments were directed at your post. But once I got rolling, I just threw everything in the pot.


    I still believe that greed is the root/major cause of most serious problems in the world.
    Take any negative event that's happened in history and greed is always part of the cause.
    It's a generalized statement, and every event is different, but there is always greed at some point.
    While that very well may be true, I don't know that anything can be done about it. It's a human trait that's existed since the first caveman realized that having the biggest club and the most mammoth meat around his cave got him the most cavegirls. As the years went on, societies developed and people split into classes. One group made themselves aristocrats; the leaders who kept the good stuff for themselves. The others could starve and they still ate well. Greed takes many forms, I guess. But as long as there are people, there will be greed and avarice. It's fine to point it out, but I can't see that that addresses the problem. Right?

    The guy that I pointed out from your linked article is greedy too. He tried to portray himself as a victim. But he's not. He got the benefits from a stolen education (able to travel to Europe, able to get a better job there, etc.), when he could have stayed here, taught school in a disadvantaged district, worked certain public service sector jobs and had his school loan debt completely forgiven. But he didn't want to do any of that. IMO, that's greedy. He could have given something back to the less fortunate (who may never get the opportunity to go to college), and decided that he'd just play the millennial victim card and enjoy his ill gotten gains in Germany.
    "Don't tell me what I can't do!" -- John Locke

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    Love comes and goes but FreeOnes is forever. Luxman's Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Student Loans are Indentured Servitude

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9DQIpYpzw8


    Why college is a SCAM and how tuition fees are out of control

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez2LWHmyu6k
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I absolutely agree with him in both videos: top heavy administrations, students fawning over post-modern Marxism and other socially and economically useless belief systems, colleges willing to offer all manner of foolishness as long as the student pays with cash or credit, student loan debt is indeed indentured servitude (the Bible teaches that "the borrower is slave to the lender"). He encouraged a student to make the more economical school choice and avoid debt as much as possible. Good man! In fact, I don't believe that he said anything in either video that didn't make me want to shout, "Amen, brutha. Preach it!!!"

    Jordan Peterson. I'll be sure to look up some more of his videos when I have the time to view them. Excellent. Thank you, Luxman for sharing.

    P.S. Tried to rep you, but the FO hall monitor wouldn't let me.
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    Love comes and goes but FreeOnes is forever. Luxman's Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I don't care if I get rep. I don't see the purpose of rep for members. A system where the individual posts get rep makes more sense, similar to the Like system on youtube.
    Half my posts are just the word "Bump", and all my rep is for at most 30% of my posts, which makes the rep useless unless there is a way of seeing which posts were repped here in the forum, that I'm not aware of.

    Anyways, everyone should watch Jordan Peterson's videos, they were eye opening for me.
    I agree with most of what he says, he gives a lot of good practical common sense advice.
    His book "12 Rules for Life" is the number one best selling book in the world, and has helped a lot of people, especially young men, find meaning to their lives and avoid falling into the traps of extreme right or left political and religious bullshit ideologies.
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    Racing is life... anything else is just waiting. Rey C.'s Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I watched 3 or 4 Jordan Peterson videos on YouTube earlier this morning. I'd never heard of him until your posts here. Hearing his words, and the calm manner in which he methodically presented his points, was like a breath of fresh air to me. Feminists and the LGBTQ-ABCDEFG crowd seem to get particularly unhinged in his presence. I think it's because these people have gotten used to being agreed with (by PC mandate). But Peterson refuses to follow those "rules". He's a great debater. I'll continue to listen to him as I have time.
    "Don't tell me what I can't do!" -- John Locke

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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I saw something - I think in USA Today? - that colleges are considering entering into agreements with students, where they'll garnish (a percentage? fixed dollar amount per year?) a graduate's earnings in lieu of payment (up front). Don't know how such an agreement would treat the time value of money - but it relieves a debt burden from the credit reporting agencies.

    I saw the video posted above. Two things: 1) NO ONE IS PUTTING A GUN TO THESE STUDENTS' HEADS, TO GO TO EXPENSIVE UNIVERSITIES AND TAKING ON THIS DEBT. They can go to public colleges, or community colleges. They can enter the military, and take advantage of the GI Bill. They can go to a university (Northeastern) and work a certain number of semesters as interns, to both alleviate the debt burden, AND get experience in their chosen field. 2) About teaching "Free Humanities:" I have never done so, but I'm pretty sure for at least the last decade, multiple universities offer courses FOR FREE, on-line. That is a way for people to receive an education. Not sure about "getting the piece of paper," and/or the accreditation status of said universities.

    Another thing that people forget: NOT EVERYONE MAKES A GOOD STUDENT. My brother doesn't. My nephew doesn't. My brother learned the construction trade starting a business with our father. My nephew is going to a Community College studying Culinary Arts and Hotel Management. There are also tech (automotive, beauty) and trade (electrical, plumbing) schools.

    Bernie Sanders will NEVER be President, with his platform of free education for all. Too many people put too much sweat into getting professional degrees, and/or paying off student loans, for EVERYONE ELSE to get such a substantial benefit. And, from the taxpayers' earnings in the form of increased taxes, at that.

    Okay, off my soapbox.

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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pornfan99 View Post
    I saw something - I think in USA Today? - that colleges are considering entering into agreements with students, where they'll garnish (a percentage? fixed dollar amount per year?) a graduate's earnings in lieu of payment (up front). Don't know how such an agreement would treat the time value of money - but it relieves a debt burden from the credit reporting agencies.

    I saw the video posted above. Two things: 1) NO ONE IS PUTTING A GUN TO THESE STUDENTS' HEADS, TO GO TO EXPENSIVE UNIVERSITIES AND TAKING ON THIS DEBT. They can go to public colleges, or community colleges. They can enter the military, and take advantage of the GI Bill. They can go to a university (Northeastern) and work a certain number of semesters as interns, to both alleviate the debt burden, AND get experience in their chosen field. 2) About teaching "Free Humanities:" I have never done so, but I'm pretty sure for at least the last decade, multiple universities offer courses FOR FREE, on-line. That is a way for people to receive an education. Not sure about "getting the piece of paper," and/or the accreditation status of said universities.

    Another thing that people forget: NOT EVERYONE MAKES A GOOD STUDENT. My brother doesn't. My nephew doesn't. My brother learned the construction trade starting a business with our father. My nephew is going to a Community College studying Culinary Arts and Hotel Management. There are also tech (automotive, beauty) and trade (electrical, plumbing) schools.

    Bernie Sanders will NEVER be President, with his platform of free education for all. Too many people put too much sweat into getting professional degrees, and/or paying off student loans, for EVERYONE ELSE to get such a substantial benefit. And, from the taxpayers' earnings in the form of increased taxes, at that.

    Okay, off my soapbox.
    That would mean having to work for something which is COMPLETELY out of the question. If it isn't an all inclusive free pass forget it. Sad but that's the mentality.
    RJS13
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    Wanna really see how Gung Ho these students are? Offer a cost match program. A pay for play if you will. A program where you actually go to school and every dollar you spend will be matched as long as a passing grade(s) are maintained. Sounds like one helluva deal on paper but it would never work. Wanna know why? It ain't free!!!!
    RJS13
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    Love comes and goes but FreeOnes is forever. Luxman's Avatar
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    Re: Student Loans Debt Dodgers

    I usually don't like financial discussions but this one is very informative, a bit long but worth the listen.
    Set speed to 1.25 or 1.5.
    He talks a bit about student loans, and other financial advice, explains what Trump is doing, and what will possibly happen with the economy.

    Peter Schiff is an American Republican businessman, investment broker, author and financial commentator.
    Schiff is CEO and chief global strategist of Euro Pacific Capital Inc.
    He also hosts his own podcast called “The Peter Schiff Podcast” available on iTunes and at SchiffRadio.com


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u7kDfEtKfs
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